Episode 01: Introduction to the Bickelhaupt Arboretum: A Brief History

Our first in a series of podcasts about the Bickelhaupt arboretum. In this podcast we talk with Margo Hansen former director of programs for the arboretum, about the history of the arboretum and get an idea about who the Bickelhaupts were. Their daughter Francie Hill gives us a unique perspective about her parents and what led them to start this arboretum and what challenges they had during the beginning of this project. David Horst director of horticulture for the arboretum, talks about how the master plan for the arboretum was developed and what that meant for the planning and layout of the arboretum itself and how that has changed over the years.

Transcript


Ryan Welch:
Welcome to the first of what will be several podcasts about the Bickelhaupt Arboretum, a 14-acre arboretum located in Clinton, Iowa. During these podcasts, we will talk about the history and the development of the arboretum, the collections of trees, shrubs, and gardens that make it up, and the wonderful people that help keep this place beautiful year-round. So what is an arboretum? 

Margo Hanson: An arboretum is a living museum of Woody Plant material, and that would be like trees and shrubs. It would include both deciduous trees. Those are the trees and shrubs that drop their leaves with the seasons, of course, when they go dormant, and then also conifers, which are needled plant material like pine spruce for things like that. 

Ryan Welch: That was Margot Hansen, who for the last 11 years has been director of programs at the Arboretum. A key distinction compared to other museums is that everything on display is alive and growing. In most museums that you visit, the displays are very static, and don't change much through the years. Arboretums are much different and everything on display is alive. And the visitors have an opportunity to experience these wonderful plants throughout the seasons in all their living glory.

Margo Hanson: You know, we do have a few non-living displays like girdled limbs and things that people have sat next to trees and grown in. So we do have, you know, and how to prune and things like that. We have a few little displays like that. But yes, for the most part, it is living plant material, trees, and shrubs. We have labels, so you know how old the plant is, you know what day it was planted, and you can figure out how old it is. And then we only do plants that are hardy to this location. We don't do many, we don't do tropicals. We don't do things that we really have to cover and pamper in the winter because we want to show people what goes here, what lives and survives here. And if it doesn't make it, then, you know, it could just be a glitch in Mother Nature one year. But if it's something that's really tender, we don't really highlight those. We want to only show people what grows in this area 

Ryan Welch: So it'll change all year round and things like that.

Margo Hanson: It does, yes, you know, as nature does, we lose things to two storms, we lose things to insect and disease problems and old age. So those are all the natural factors that happen and things that happen in nature and the same happens here.  So yes, we do lose things to disease, but if that's going to be a plant that's a real problem with, then we don't want people to encourage people to plant that in the area. And there are exceptions to every rule, of course.

Ryan Welch: So what would lead someone to start a museum of living plants in the middle of the Midwest? How did all this get started? How did this arboretum start? What? What was the beginning part of this place? 

Margo Hanson: The arboretum was actually founded by Mr. and Mrs. Bickelhaupt and they like to be called Mr. or Mrs. B.  

Ryan Welch: Why is that?

Margo Hanson: Because, well, because everybody spelled their name wrong, everybody pronounced their name wrong. And it was just easier for the general public to call them Mr. or Mrs. B. So early on they said, Just call us that. So it's not out of disrespect that I'll just call them Mr. or Mrs. B as we go, you know, and talk about them through the program. But Mr. or Mrs. B both grew up in Clinton and they founded the Arboretum in 1970. So that's 52 years ago. In 2022, the interesting thing was they were ready to retire. Starting an arboretum is a long-term project and the people said, you know, are you sure you really want to do this? You're going to retire. You don't want to go golf. You said, no, we really want to start an arboretum. So they were starting to retire or think about retiring, decided to start this arboretum at their home and on their property. And at the time it was around 12 or 13 acres, I believe, and it was if we can go back even further back into the early 1900s, Mr. and Mr. Bickelhaupt's father had a car dealership, and they purchased this small farm on the outskirts of Clinton back in the early 1900s. And they had this little farm with a farmhouse and a fence and things because during the Depression, people couldn't pay, make money payments for the vehicles that they had purchased from Mr. Bickelhaupt's father's dealership. So they would bring a cow or a horse or some kind of livestock as payment goes, a barter program.

Ryan Welch: So it was a barter program.

Margo Hanson: It was a barter program because back during the Depression, they just didn't have cash, so to speak. So their payment was made in livestock and taken into the Chicago stockyards. They would house the livestock here on this little farm until they had enough.  That's how they got their money back from all this livestock.

Ryan Welch: So the original purchase of the land then, wasn't by the person who started the arboretum. It wasn't by Robert. 

Margo Hanson: No, no.

Ryan Welch: It was it was actually by his father who owned the land initially. 

Margo Hanson: Exactly. 

Ryan Welch: So it wasn't even in the town. Wasn't even out here yet? 

Margo Hanson: No. 

Ryan Welch: For a matter of speaking, we were out in the country and now we are very urban. Right. 

Margo Hanson: And so I just find that very interesting.  As the years progressed and the depression, you know, we got over the Depression, there was no need for this farm anymore.

Ryan Welch: To get an idea of what life was like in this area back then. We talked to the Bickelhaupt's daughter, Francie Hill.

Francie Hill: My name is Francie Hill. I was born Francie Bickelhaupt. I'm the daughter of Frances and Bob, grew up on the grounds of the arboretum, putting my feet in the creek, running up and down the hills, and things like that. About 20 years ago. I came back to Clinton. My husband had died. I came back and my dad suffered a stroke. Came back to Clinton with no knowledge of horticulture at all, given the responsibility of directing it.

Ryan Welch: What was it like growing up in that area before the arboretum was there? 

Francie Hill: Yeah, actually, South 14th Street, which runs directly to the east of the arboretum, was the city limits. We were outside the city limit. My Grandpa Bickelhaupt was a car dealer in Clinton as he worked on the farmer's car, tractor, even tractors, anything like that, that he had some good work that they would give him instead of money they would give him perhaps a pig or a cow or something like that. That was when people traded services like that. 

So he didn't just sell the cars and stuff. He also did repair work. 

Francie Hill: Did repair work, un-huh, weren’t many of them in Clinton doing it, he did a luxury car, the packer, and then he also did anything else that anybody brought in. His largest contract actually was up in Savannah, Savannah Construction, a huge company. So they came from there and that was a lot of money crisis in freight lines, a lot of money with their trucks and so things like that. So he wanted a place to put these animals outside the city limits, 

Ryan Welch: Of course.

Francie Hill: So he had those. So I grew up and I was always like the runt pig or the red cow, and he'd keep them there and feed them and then they would take them off to market. I always had a pony that was there, a horse or burrow or pony, and it was just a great place to grow up. It really was. I grew up. I was there, the end of my I think end of eighth grade through maybe in the seventh grade through high school. I can remember I was thinking about this morning. I can remember in 19, 1950, I think it was Christmas Day. My Grandpa Bickelhaupt had handed my dad a mom an envelope and it said, would they like some of that farm property? And so they decided they liked the hill is where their house is now and that farm still kept going down below. There was an electric fence that separated and the joke was the fun was we had a swimming pool and my decorated with artificial plants hundreds of dollars of artificial plants, but, you know, nothing natural. One night, some of my friends, perhaps, I'm sure I denied it, went through the fence and broke the fence, swam in the pool. We were out of town. When we got back in town. My mother went out to look at the pool and there was a cow drinking out of the pool. At that point, we enclosed the whole house, which now was a part of the arboretum, we used it for plant propagation, everything out there. It was the only indoor pool, a non-commercial indoor pool, except for the Maytag family out in wherever that was in Iowa. So it was kind of a novel thing to have. 

Ryan Welch: Wow. 

Francie Hill: Indoor pool. 

Ryan Welch: Yeah. 

Francie Hill: The high ceilings, which later lent itself with all the windows to a wonderful place to propagate plants.

Ryan Welch: Yeah, it's a very, you know, the all that light comes in, it's a really good place to propagate. 

Francie Hill: But that was kind of what it was like growing up around there. 

Ryan Welch: In the 1950s. They wanted to move out of town to a quieter location. So they built what was at the time, well, a fairly modern Frank Lloyd Wright-style house in 1955 on the location where the arboretum is today. And they raised their two daughters, Francie and Linda. At the time. This was outside of town in a much quieter neighborhood than what we see today after they had raised their daughters and retired from their careers. It was then that they decided to start an arboretum. Margo continues to tell us more about this decision. 

Margo Hanson: They raised their children here. They moved on. And it's then that they said, you know what, we have this land, let's start an arboretum. And they weren't plant people. 

Ryan Welch: So how do you get interested in something like that? How does a person say, you know, I'm ready to move on to a different career, let me do something that's completely out of my comfort zone, and let me start planting trees. 

And, you know, I wish we could ask them. 

Ryan Welch: Yeah 

Margo Hanson: Because it's just they were not plant people. And the Dutch Elm Disease hit in the 1960s and 1970s. And any of you that were around that time know that the Dutch Elm Disease eliminated a majority of the elms, just like the emerald ash spores is eliminating the ash population in the whole United States. So they walk almost all the streets of Clinton to experience the damage done by the Dutch Elm Disease. To see how many trees in Clinton were destroyed. And there were just hundreds and hundreds of trees and huge areas of dead from this disease. And they said to them to each other, they said, we really need to educate the public to plant all kinds of trees so this doesn't happen again. 

Ryan Welch: So it was very much a community service project for them initially. 

Margo Hanson: Exactly. And they liked when they went on their car shows and their dealership shows, when they were younger, they would go to arboretums and gardens and, you know, they didn't necessarily go golfing and do the normal thing that people do at these buying shows. And so as they traveled around the country, they would look at different gardens and arboretums and really enjoyed that and pick some things up. But again, they had no tree background. They had no educational horticulture background. So that's what I find so fascinating. 

Ryan Welch: So it's been said that the idea of the arboretum came about following the loss of so many trees in the area due to Dutch elm disease. Can you elaborate on the truth behind this? And if there was any other factors as well that led to your parents coming up with this and pursuing this idea?

Francie Hill: Sometimes things just fall into place and we're talking the late sixties and my mom and dad had made financially, Clinton had given a lot to them and they'd give it to the town. And most of their friends were going to Florida to play bridge and golf, and they felt very loyal to Clinton. Both of them were third-generation Clintonians, and they really felt like they wanted to give something back to that community. So they were trying to think, what should they do? What could they do? And trees were never on that. They're not at all on the radar at all. They started taking walks around town and they walked I think they walked over 90 miles and they charted it on this big map to look at. And they marked everywhere they went. One night they saw on Fifth Avenue these big Xs on trees and they caught on. That was the tree was gone. Why was it going to be taken down? They asked people and they said, Well, because it's Dutch Elm Disease. And my folks were, what is that at all? They explained to them that was growing a lot of trees at one time. Clinton, Iowa was called the city of Trees, the avenue of the Elms and Just Avenue, and there are postcards of them now. They sell them on eBay, I guess, and it was an arch of trees and it was very, very beautiful. People came, drove from Chicago to see this avenue of trees slowly up and down the street, brick street. It was very they tried to find out from the city what they were going to do when the trees were cut down. Even then, people knew that if you cut the trees down on the south side of your house, you're going to have a lot of sun in the summer. Urban, forestry, ecology, environment were words that were just never used. Nobody knew what they were. I don't think urban forestry was used until probably the 1980s and now it is. We all know what it is. 

Ryan Welch: Yeah. 

Francie Hill: So the city said that they would plant some new trees. They thought, that's a good idea, we'll put some more trees. And my dad, who only saw cars but also knew that with cars you'd have to sell a lot of cars to people coming back. You have to offer them diversity. So if you have a Packard one year, maybe five years, you have a Mercedes they don't always want navy, let's go to dark red. So we understood diversity in those terms. And so he suggested that they plant, submit some diverse plantings. And the question, of course, was why we can get a better price if we get them all the same ones. And he said, But what if we get another disease? Now we see that right now with other things that are coming up that, you know, we're having

Ryan Welch: Like emerald ash bore.  

Francie Hill: Exactly. 

Ryan Welch: And I've seen a lot of ash trees, right. Because that was the next. You know, it was it went from chestnut to elm to Ash. And, you know, it's a lesson. We're still trying to learn it. 

Francie Hill: So they never really thought about it being their Arboretum was the only arboretum that we never even heard of was Morton Arboretum. And that was a lot of money. That was a salt company. They started taking classes there. They really were very interested in what could happen with the tree. And they just all this education came to him. I by then, my husband and I had had a child and we would come out and visit and they'd say, So what do you think about this? And we're like, What's an arboretum? So they took us to Morton and we visited it and everything and they were getting to know some people. This is a classic, a beautiful story. One of the classes that they would drive in and stay at a hotel outside of Chicago, outside of Morton, Lisle, Illinois, actually stay outside there. And then they get up and go to classes and go back. They saw a man who was sitting on a bench and his head was down. And my dad said, Didn't you just teach a class to us? And he said, Yes. And he said, But it's my last one. And my dad said, What happened? And he said, I'm 65 and I have to retire. And my dad said he turned to my mom and they went out and had a cup of coffee and let's do it. So my dad went back in and he said, Could I hire you? Would you like to help us start an arboretum? He said, Well, a lot of people want to do that, but he said, It's a lot of work. You have to have a real commitment, a real commitment, and I think I'd like to come out and see it. So he came out and see it and it's highly publicized what his report was. He'd never realized all the natural oxbows remember that the land where the arboretum has never been tilled. Okay, so normally a homeowner has a house, and the tractors and that schedule of his are sat in their yard, compacted the soil. This had never been it had been grazed by a few of my grandfather's pet animals.

Ryan Welch: Yeah

Francie Hill: But other than that, nothing. It was just, I mean, totally virgin. And so Mr. Nadine was very excited. He said I've never been around. Normally we have to bring in a load of dirt and that's not good, he said. This is natural. This is the dirt that was there. It was there, he said. I think next to commitment. The other word you have to say is native. You have to stick with native plants, native, everything, native don't show people in Clinton, they can plant a palm tree, and don't show them they can grow orchids. It has to be what they can do here. 

Ryan Welch: Yeah. 

Francie Hill: So the arboretum really was founded as an education for people of native, wooded-native plants

Ryan Welch:  Things that could handle the climate we have here in Iowa and also the zone of growth we have.

Francie Hill: Exactly. And that's really more economical to think about it because 

Ryan Welch:  It is, it is.

Francie Hill: You're not feeding it all this other stuff. And we know it's bad. 

Ryan Welch: Exactly. There's a lot of folks out there who, you know, when you look at stuff like that and they're trying to, to plant things and maybe beautify, their yard, they don't quite understand the commitment that's going to come just from planting it, just from growing it, and just for making sure it continues to stay alive, alone, having to deal with. Okay, if the weather's too extreme for this long, what's it going to do this way and that way? And so all those things are things. 

Francie Hill: You understand it pretty good.

Ryan Welch:  Yeah. All those things are things that your parents took into consideration and were actually advised well on at the very beginning of this, which is the time to do it, because otherwise, you spend all that time and headache doing something that only to watch it sort of fizzle at a time when you really are trying to get it to get up there and go so 

Margo Hanson: When they decided to do this and pursue it, they went to as many programs as they could. They went to the Morton Arboretum whenever they had classes. They did a lot with Iowa State University and they tried to learn as much as they could. 

Ryan Welch: And this was before the Internet. So this was at a time where if you wanted to learn this kind of stuff, you couldn't zoom in at an Iowa State class or you couldn't call up Morton Arboretum and have a conference that way. You had to go physically to these places, learn this stuff, and then I drive all the way back and look at your land and say, I think I can do this. I think I can put this here and put that there, and maybe it'll work.

Margo Hanson: Well and Ryan back then. If you remember, you're younger than me. Everything was written by pencil and paper. 

Ryan Welch: Everything was written by pencil and paper. 

Margo Hanson: Everything, all the financial was done by hand. It was a little calculator, no cell phones, no Google, as you mentioned. So you have to really think the 1970s and it wasn't a bad time. We just hadn't progressed technology-wise. So everything was done by hand, everything was written down, notes were taken, and phone calls were made. The people kept questioning, saying, it's not like making a quilt one winter. You know, it's not short-term. This is very long-term. And bless their hearts, they were committed to this long term. We've been here 52 years. They both lived into their nineties, so they were able to plant and watch this arboretum grow for over three decades.

Ryan Welch: Now, when they began this arboretum, was there a plan in terms of maybe specific types of trees that really wanted to showcase? Or did they just want to try and give people an idea of the kind of variety that you could grow in an area like this?

Margo Hanson: So that's a great question because in the beginning, that's the hardest they maybe knew what trees to plant. But as far as placement, you know, where is this collection going to be best? Anybody can plant a tree or anybody can plant a bunch of trees. But we wanted an arboretum that people could walk around that would showcase the plants, to make them look the best, and to put them in the right location. So in the beginning, there was not a master plan. Okay, that didn't come until later. And so they did some planting and some planning. Some of it was cleaning off the creek area that was really overgrown and underbrush, just underbrush and things like that, mulberry and things like that. So they didn't have a whole lot of help. So it took it was a little slow start. And then also, if any of you planted trees, you know that sometimes you plan them. It looks like it's just a stick sticking there. So they did plant, but the trees were young and small and it wasn't very you know, it's not impressive when you plant a new you have to give those trees time to grow and develop. And so it was, it was a slow start like it needed to be. And then the master plan didn't come until later. 

Ryan Welch: So as we can see, the clubs have this parcel of land that they had raised a family on following the loss of so many trees in their community to Dutch Elm Disease, they decided to turn this property into an arboretum so that people could see and experience all the options that were available to them in their area. As Margot pointed out, they weren't plant people and so they put a lot of hard work into learning about these. How to get them started. How to care for them and how to manage them. It was very slow going at first, especially with trees. You have to play the long game and you have to have a vision of everything that's going to happen and realize it's not going to happen overnight. As they began, they could see that they were going to be successful and make the most of this area and this project. They had to have a plan in place that they could follow. For more information about how we got to that plan, we're going to hear from David Horst, who's the director of horticulture at the Arboretum and has been here for the last 36 years.

David Horst: My name's David Horst. I'm from Sabuela. I've been employed at the Bickelhaupt Arboretum for 36 years, starting here in 1986, 

Ryan Welch: When I first talked with, with Margo. We had talked about the history of Bickelhaupt's, how they came about deciding to do this arboretum, how they started doing it when they retired, and how they already had the land and things like that. One of the things that Margo mentioned, though, was that they had to come up with a master plan. What would you know about the master plan as it came about in terms of the arboretum?

David Horst: Well, the Bickelhaupts had always kind of come up with the ideas and thoughts for the Arboretum, along with a friend of theirs that they met at the Morton Arboretum, Roy Nordine, who was the lead Propagator at the Morton Arboretum in Lisle, Illinois. He became their first board member and together they would kind of make the plans each year, what they were going to plant and how they were going to do it and layout the collections in the arboretum. After many years, it was decided that perhaps they should look down the road as they were becoming older at this time and decided that perhaps they should make sure that the Arboretum is properly taken care of for many, many years after they passed. So they decided to take the master plan to the next step, and at this time they had a complete board of directors. So they discussed this with the board of directors and decided to hire a firm in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, named Bitner Associates to draw up their first master plan. And of course, the master plan is developed as a guide for future vision goals strategy for the Arboretum. It basically provides a guideline for future planning and growth, and not just for the grounds or the plants, but also for similar things like attracting the visitors, budget, and events and programs. 

Ryan Welch: Okay, so it's one of those things where you gonna discuss, okay, here's what we kind of need to be doing every day. But on the other side, if we want to keep this sustainable, here's some long-term ideas we have to come up with. Here are some future things we have to keep in mind as this arboretum expands potentially or grows or changes. As you said, things change through the season, and plans change. You're dealing with living things. And so because of that, some of those things, you know, they die, they grow, things like that. So we have to be able to handle that as you go. The master plan sort of gives you a framework to help with that, correct?

David Horst:  That's correct. 

Ryan Welch: Okay. Yeah. So they start the arboretum in 1970. You come on in 1986. But when was the master plan actually finally on paper,

David Horst: It was finally on paper and usable in September of 2001. 

Ryan Welch: Okay. So for almost 30 years, they were sort of just going by what they what the vision they sort of had in their head, but yet wasn't quite on paper in official aspect, correct?

David Horst: That's correct. And now we have hard copies frequently reviewed. These are copies of our reports master plan and assist us in current and future planning here at the arboretum. 

Ryan Welch: Okay. So they're living documents? Yeah, on paper, yes. You can look at them, touch them, but yet they're always changing as things change here at the arboretum. 

David Horst: That's correct. 

Ryan Welch: Okay. Now, initially, you know, when they started in 1970, in doing this, there were probably already trees on the property, correct? That's right. Okay. Can you tell me anything about what they are because my guess is they didn't just cut everything down to just replant new things, they had trees that were already here initially that they kind of worked around, correct? 

David Horst: That's correct. 

Ryan Welch: Okay. 

David Horst: The trees already existing on the grounds before the arboretum was started in 1970 were called founder trees. Some of these grew naturally, while others were planted around the Bickel House household. The name founder trees was decided upon by Robert and Frances Bickelhaupt and their daughter Francie, as they felt the founder trees provided the foundation of the trees and shrubs that make up the arboretum. Today, there are only seven founder trees left as weather-related incidents of old age have taken a toll on many of them over the years. So some of the older trees were existing on the grounds when the arboretum was started in 1970. Keep in mind, this was like a pasture at that time with long grass, and there was a creek flowing through the center of it named Rock Creek, which had trees growing along it also. So we had some of these majestic big bur oaks and white oaks, black cherry, other native trees that you find in Iowa. Those were existing trees that the Bickelhaupts had also planted trees around their home, which they had built in the mid to late fifties here on the grounds. And they had planted like a row of white pines 

Ryan Welch: As a sort of a windbreak

David Horst: As a windbreak and a screen

Ryan Welch: Because they didn't cut those down once they started the idea of the Arboretum. And they just kind of said, okay, we're going to have these here, and then do they think about as they were continuing then, they knew they had these trees already set. They were already fairly mature. They'd been growing. Do they then kind of think about what kind of things to put around them to sort of accent and keep in mind or they look at other places on the ground and say, there's no trees here. Let's start a collection of this here.

David Horst: A little, a little both. But actually, that was one of the main reasons they call them founder trees because they didn't use them as the foundation and they were already nice size. So they gave that foundation a good start and then they did focus around them. There were other parts of the arboretum where there were no existing trees, but yes, the founder trees overall made a tremendous impact in the early days of the arboretum.

Ryan Welch: What trees did your parents already have on the property then? So they'd bring out 

Francie Hill: I mean, remember, my dad was a car dealer. He was a car. His days, they worked 60-hour weeks. Exactly. No questions asked. And if on a Saturday afternoon a customer wanted a car hand-washed, my dad would,  my mom would drive my dad up to the house and the top of the hill for this lady and drive it down. And my dad would I know himself, he was helping with sometimes the washing of the cars. And so because of that, they did not I don't ever remember a mower at my house at our house ever. And there was a man who did mow for them, and his name was Johannes Schumacher, a German man who had very broken English. And he loved the arboretum, he loved the land. And he would bring things out to them just like a little seed and say, Oh, can I plant this? And so I wrote this down. And actually, 15 years ago I was trying to think of a gift for my parents for their anniversary. And so I thought, why not identify the founder's trees? So at that time, there were 12, probably 12 of them. Since then, the derecho and a lot of them were not there. But I think still standing, which I think is kind of interesting that they have they had the Kentucky coffee tree. They had some ewes, they had white pine. And there's one other one that they have. What's the other one they have,  oh Bur Oak, which is the state tree of Iowa. So those were the four that if you go there today, 

Ryan Welch: That are still there, still the founder's trees that were started there 

Francie Hill: Like 50 some years ago. This was by this man who would come up to my mom at the door and say, Do you know what this is? She said, no, but he would say, Well, this is it. Can I take care of it? And they grew very well. The first seeding, the seed of the arboretum, the first beginning roots and all that kind of stuff. 

Ryan Welch: So you now know what an arboretum is and a little bit about what you can see. And we have seen how and why the Bickelhaupt arboretum was started by the Bickelhaupts as a way to give back to the community they believe had given them so much. This daunting task was initiated as a way to educate the community they lived in on the diversity of trees that could grow in this area, an area that they saw had been badly devastated by a combination of tree diseases such as Dutch Elm disease, as well as a lack of diversity in the areas tree population. This would have been a very large project for anyone to take on, let alone a couple that had just begun their retirement and knew little to nothing about growing and taking care of trees in general. A lot of work was done by them in first learning how to properly grow and take care of these trees and then in later years how to put a plan together to ensure that the arboretum would be a lasting part of the community. Well, after they were gone, a passion to give back to the community and educate others was what drove the Bickelhaupts to begin this idea and set it on the foundation that it has been on for over 50 years. This passion can still be seen today when you talk to those individuals that are associated with keeping the arboretum going and educating others on the growth and diversity of the plants that can be seen in our area. Many thanks need to be given for this project to Margo Hanson, Francie Hill and David Horst for all of their knowledge, time and input on this podcast, and to Otis Welch for the original score and music that was done at the beginning and the end.